hey dave and sofaking

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[04SuperchargedSS]

now that this forum is more about you 2 talking about photography imma bug you for some info and input.

i have currently a powershot A520  does everything i need a camera to do and i have taken some really good pictures with it.  but i want to make the move to DSLR.  everywhere i look the Nikon D40 is coming down in price. locally i have seen it at $420 with a lens.  What are your thoughts on this camera? anything else in that price range i should look at?

lemme know im thinking really hard about picking one up this payday.

[crazy k]

I prefer the Canon XSi.

do some research and compare!

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

i myself shoot with a Canon Digital Rebel XTi, which i hear is no longer made, and replaced with the XSi. lol ive had it for a couple years and i know its a good camera and is capable of some really good shots, and i know that Nikon is aswell, but is also soon to be on the chopping block. if it already hasnt been. theyre all going to get you pretty much the same results (as ive gotten with my friends Nikon P5000-point n shoot as i have with my dslr) mine were a little more on the sharp side and allowed for better editing. but for a shot out of the camera, they were pretty much the same.  
to take good pictures you need to be good with your camera, and like the feel of it, know where all the controls are and they should be easy to get to and easy to use.  
go check them out in a camera store and basically just see what you like shooting with best, thats all i have to say. a simple camera body with good glass infront of it will get you a better picture than a crazy camera body with cheap glass. (mind you a CRAZY camera, with superb glass would probably be a persons best bet) hahaha ya we can all afford that im sure.

when i got my camera, it was from a crack head in a parking lot... so i took what i got when i got it and got used to it. being that i shoot with canon, i tried a nikon out of curiosity one day and thought it was a better camera in the way that the buttons were layed out, i liked how it felt when the shutter released... it felt like a higher quality camera than my XTi (i believe it was a D40 i shot with too, and isnt that on the same level as mine?) i dunno i havent been looking around at much new stuff till i get good with what i have now.

to sum it up. buy what feels nice in your hands, and dont look back, the eye piece only works one way.

[04SuperchargedSS]

yeah the canons are nice, but out of my price range for an impulse buy  

up here the eos rebel xsi body only is like $650 and i believe the Xti is disc as well havent seen them in a while.  last i saw them was at mcbain here and they were also like $700 ish

a friend of mine bought the olympus e-410 i think it was and it just feels cheap, takes great pics but it feels cheap if a camera can do such a thing

i would love to be able to spend a bit more but the D40 is definitely in my price range and the lens selection down the road is endless it seems

[Dstanic]

Don't buy a Nikon D40 for a couple reasons:

1.  I beleive you can't use ALL of the Nikon lenses.  You are limited to certain lenses ("DX" I think... but I'm not a Nikon expert).

2.  Canon is better than Nikon for high ISO performance (unless you get a Nikon D90 which are good but $$)


You get what you pay for but the big bucks are really in the lenses.  I've bought mine used and have spend around $1000 for 3 lenses, they are good but definatly not the best ones you can buy.  

The Canon Rebel XTi is the closest thing to the D40 in terms of features and performance.  You should be able to find it online for cheap, they are still available you just have to look.  I bought mine last year from Henrys for $599 body only.  Look for a used 30D (or refurbished), they are very good cameras and have a larger more professional feel to them.  Check out this link: http://www.adorama.com/ICA30DR.html?searchinfo=30D&item_no=11

[Dstanic]

a friend of mine bought the olympus e-410 i think it was and it just feels cheap, takes great pics but it feels cheap if a camera can do such a thing

They are cheap, stay away from them.  Their lens selection sucks too.  Also stay away from Sony, their ISO performance is terrible.  

[/quote]

i would love to be able to spend a bit more but the D40 is definitely in my price range and the lens selection down the road is endless it seems

I beleive Canon has the best lens selection.  Nikon lenses seem to be more expensive.  You can get both Sigma and Tamron lenses for either camera though.

[04SuperchargedSS]

thanks for the info.  it seems the more i look at it the canon line is the better way to go, just need to save a few more pennies i think  im really not into the thought of picking one of these up on ebay or used.  maybe local if anything that way i can mess around with it or at least ensure everything is working fine.

[crazy k]

BUY AN XSi WITHOUT THE LENS!!!  the kit lens SUCKS.

get a tripod.


then buy a 50mm 1.8 lens "NIFTY FIFTY"  about $85 from amazon.com.


I haven't decided on the next lens I want, but I'm hoping for a wider angle, say maybe a 18-20mm range.

btw, the nifty fifty combined with the smaller CMOS sensor in teh rebel series cameras is the equivalent of about a 70mm lens, do it is almost a mild telephoto lens.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

i think ur right on the lens thing for the Nikons Dave. but i dunno about that High ISO thing, if i turn mine up (even at night) then i get really grainy shots.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

the kit lens isnt the greatest, but neither is the f/1.8 50mm, i own both of them, and i use them both about the same. the 50 feels like the cheapest piece of camera equipment i own, though it takes some REALLY clear shots and can produce some great bokeh, its still cheaply made. ive gotten some REALLY good shots out of the stock lens (18-55mm) all it takes is patience. the kit lenses arent the greatest, they dont really show off what the camera is capable of doing, but theyre a good place to start.

[Dstanic]

I'm not sure why crazy k hates the 18-55 IS lens so much, perhaps it was a bad copy?  From reviews I've read that it's much better than the old 18-55 (non-IS) that came with the XT/XTIs.  If I can find one cheap enough I'd like to buy one for it's small size and weight.  

Here's a good deal on the basic Rebel XS.  This camera was designed to replace the old Rebel XT, and it's got similar quality to the XSI.  I think this is a better camera to get than the older Rebel XTi.

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=243199


I've bought cameras over the last 2 years (a Sony H5 in December 06, and the XTi in Dec 07) and I have found that it is a good time of the year to buy cameras.  Boxing day has it's sales, but if a camera is on sale in December, it likely will not be cheaper on boxing week.

i think ur right on the lens thing for the Nikons Dave. but i dunno about that High ISO thing, if i turn mine up (even at night) then i get really grainy shots.

I use ISO800 all the time on my XTi, it's great and there is very little noise.  ISO1600 is still very usable but you have to be careful to expose properly, otherwise you WILL get grainy shots.  And this is especially apparent at night when there is lots of darkness for the noise to appear.  Higher end cameras will produce less noise (the 40D at ISO1600 is almost as good as ISO800 on XTi, the 5D is great up to ISO3200, and so on).  

Last week was the christmas parade which was at night.  I was more just shooting for fun because I hadn't used my cam in a couple weeks, but I had to shoot at ISO1600 at f/2.8 in order to have non-blurry shots since I hate tripods.  

There were alot of crappy shots, but some good ones as well.  here is one of my wife ISO1600, f/2.8 1/25sec (yes I managed to hold it steady!) using my Sigma 24-60 lens.


larger size: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dstanic/3067734867/sizes/o/

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

so i guess we all agree on a comfortable body with decent options and some good glass to shoot thru.
(Canon seems to be the popular vote) though i still say i like the feel of a nikon more than i like canon, but if a guy were to upgrade his body (lol) then his lenses wouldnt be compatible. or so i hear.

anyone hear something different? what a waste.
i know for sure you can use canon lenses from a DSLR camera on a Full Frame camera (dont know what a full frame camera exactly is) but i do know theyre worth like 7 of my cameras.

[Dstanic]

Canon has EF and EF-S lenses.  

EF are "regular" lenses that will work on both full frame and "crop" cameras.  The Rebel series and 10-to-50D are 1.6x crop, which means they have a smaller sensor than a full frame (such as a 5D) which magnifys the image by 1.6x (great for sports or wildlife shooters).  This is why Rebels come with 18mm-55 kit lens, because 18mm is fairly wide- the "kit lens" on 5D or 1D pro cameras is the 24-105 which would have a similar field of view.

EF-S lenses only work on the crop cameras (Rebels and 20D/30D/40D/50D).  The "S" is for "short back" because they have a different design to sit closer to these sensors (especially with wider angle lenses such as a 18-55 or 10-22 ultra wide).  Note that all of the high grade "L" lenses are EF, not EF-S.



In regards to Nikon, they are great cameras.  I'm not exactly sure on their lens compatibility with their different bodies.  Thie past year Nikon has made some really good cameras such as the D90, D300, D700 and D3, but they are all priced considerably higher than a D40.  Canon is your best bang for your buck, you can get a bargain with the Rebel XS, or pay a little more (still low price compared to Nikon) and get a 40D or 50D.

I really can't say that Canon is better than Nikon or vice versa, just that if you go with Nikon get a D90 or better.

Check out the Canon forum that I go to:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

[crazy k]

I have both the 18-55 lens from the XT, and the XSi. (both the old, and the newer image stabilized one)

in spite of being focused, i took several night time shots of downtown cleveland at night, and inspite of camera tripod, liveview (which shuts the mirror) and a 2 second delay (removes my shaking of the camera) the lights which would should appear as spots were blurry. (yes, I was focused)
the 50mm 1.8 took pictures under the same conditions and all the points of light were sharp as tacks.

Honestly, the lens is good, but not great.  if you were making an 8x10 of the image you might not notice the difference.


As for the 50mm 1.8, I do agree it feels cheap and is noisy, but the quality imagery it provides for the price it costs...  ANYONE with a canon EOS should have one in their camera bag.

if I was made of money, I would have the 50mm 1.4, which costs about $350.. but is rated identically in image quality.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

made of money? then get the 50mm F/1.2!! @ $1,200 it shouldnt be a big deal, right? hahaha
the 50mm lenses are all good for night shots, they let in alot of light. i think its cuz they dont have alot of glass inside them (like less lenses inside)
and yes, i agree. if you have a canon, then you should have a 50mm lens. i would love to have the 1.4 too, but i also own the 1.8. and @ $100 its canons cheapest lens, and the best bang for your buck when it comes to clarity vs price. just dont count on being able to walk in a mall and take pictures of your 21 month old daughter, she wont sit still long enough to get far away enough to take a picture. i wish it was a 20mm or less. but hey its all good.