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This is on my 95 Regal, L27. This has been happening for a while now. While the car is in idle, there's a light puttering sound coming from the exahust, and its repetitive.

1995 Buick Regal L27 3800 Series 1 Exhaust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QWi9_2amVY#)

If you listen for it, you'll hear it during the idle clips. Its a puttering sound that's very repetitive and predictable. The car pulls hard and has plenty of power, and there aren't any SES codes thrown. It idles decently well and doesn't fluctuate much at all.

Any idea on what this could be? If you put your hand toward the exhaust, you can feel the exhaust blowing bursts of air during the puttering sounds. Try listen for bursts of air.

Magnaflow straight through muffler. 4-5 years old, 80-90k miles.

I don't hear anything?

sounds like my old regal... but stick that camera to the side of the tail pipe, right behind the car. if youre askin about sound, we dont need to see the whole car, or any of it really. just hear it.

Got a burned valve. Tried the old dollar trick, where you put the dollar on the tail pipe and it sucks it in and blows it back out repeatedly.

Burned exhaust valves 1993 Buick Skylark 3300 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSE74XkcHts#)

I have a guy in northern wisconsin who's offering me a complete 85k mile engine with sensors, icm, coils, everything for $150. I'll drive up there and pick off all of the accessories, sensors, and top end after I get back from my honeymoon.

What a nifty little test!

Yep!

If you listen to that video with the test, you'll hear the kind of puttering I was talking about, and you'll see the bill getting blown back during those points. If you watch my video, you'll be able to tell the same kind of sound during idle.

Oh wow, every 60*V6 I own has a slight sputter at idle, but not like that. More like a slight misfire. That, well that sounds; expensive.

Not really.

A valve job is $240 + parts ($40 per valve and guide that needs replacing, plus seals, etc.). Its not as expensive as it can be. My cost will be $150, gas to get there and come back, head gaskets and bolts, and a weekend.

Keep in mind I'd be doing this all myself.

My car cost me $300.

So that's expensive :lol:

lol, your car is special. I want mine to go 300k miles and up, and I can't stand it when things aren't perfect. Little noises bug the living hell out of me. I take good care of my cars.

I use to be that way. I babied my '92. Bought it with only 30k on the clock, made sure it was always clean, always fixed every little problem... Then I realized that the car was rotting away to noting, and not worth babying. It eventually died and it's been sitting in my yard waiting to be stripped.

The euro, that thing has 249,500 on the odometer, this is it's first winter being driven and it's taken it hard... Car is rusting out everywhere. I'm sure it's going to do the same thing as the '92, and rot away to nothing; but still run and drive.

Yes but you see, the regal was a California car till 2006, so I have a long way to go before the rust kills it.

It really is a good looking car.

All the little things that go wrong with my car annoy me too, they drive me crazy. I want her to be perfect. Like right now I swear I smell the scent of gas when I walk by it... I'm afraid it might be leaking...

It doesn't snow in Illinois? The euro had no rust on it, but now - that's a different story. I bought the Euro for the g/f originally, but she wouldn't help me work on it; so I kept it for myself as a winter car. My '92 wasn't going to make it through another winter; but it died in the fall so I've been DD'n the Euro for too long.

I'd like to have a nice car, but out here - that's not an option. No sense in buying a new car when it's rotted out to nothing in about 5 years. That's why I just keep a supply of Luminas on-hand :lol:

Not sure about all this rust you guys are getting there, but at least here, its minimal by comparison. My fiance's sister's 96 Regal with 115k has absolutely no body panel rust, and the underside is just light surface rust.

4 years in Illinois now and my car has no signs of any significant rust.

4 years driving my '92 and it went from rust free, to the trialing arm mounts literally rotting right off the car.

The GP has been a PA car all of its life. Light surface rust underneath and a rust spot on each quarter panel, about as big as a quarter, where the plastic cladding meets the body. That's all the visible rust there is.

Must be the Luminas.

You should have seen my S10...

Hell, you should see the S10 I just bought off my friend. I touched the rocker panel and an 18" section just fell off. :lol:

X2. my 91 regal almost looked brand new underneath (BARELY any rust on anything) shit, even the gas tank could be lowered without snapping the strap bolts!!
my lumina? fuck i can poke my finger through the rear bumper core!!

It seems my LQ1 must have a burned valve as well..............

Same puttering, plus sucked the dollar in.

and with 12 exhaust valves to choose from, have fun!

Or just drive it till it blows up!!! :D

isn't that how most Ws live their life? :lol:

If you don't mind the lack of power (power being the only upside to owning an LQ1), and the decreased fuel economy due to wasted compression, sure you could still drive it, but at that point you would probably have been better off with a 3100.

3800 swap

Doesn't buck have a late model 3800 powered lumina that he replaced the lim gaskets and uim on, and also had the transmission rebuilt? IIRC he bought it less than half a year ago, so in essence he does have a 3800.

Buck, I hope you didn't pay too much for that LQ1 car. I haven't been keeping too much track of your cars lately, but a burned valve is only going to get worse.

A valve burns for many reasons, but the short story is that the valve doesn't seat properly under a high load. An exahust valve runs at 1300 degrees F normally. While the intake valve is cooled by the incoming air, 75% of the exhaust valve's cooling is done when the cylinder head  absorbs the heat through the valve seat. There are a vast number of reasons why a valve would not seat properly, but once the valve burns, the valve can either crack, chip, or simply make a horrible contact with the head, and that's something that will only continue to get worse. Because one or more valves is not making a good seal anymore, you will lose compression in those cylinders, which means your engine will run rougher, and your performance and fuel economy will drop.

At this point I'm doubting if it would be worth it for you to get the issue fixed, but I'm also doubting if it would be worth it for you to keep it. I would sell it while it still runs.

I'm fixing my problem by replacing the heads with low mileage (85k mile) heads off an engine as noted earlier, but my Regal also isn't one that I could run to the ground because of a burned valve.

Was a compression test even done yet? Then a leak down on any low cylinders

engines at our local junkyard run for less than $200, no matter what engine.

that being said im not sure why i havent bought one to rebuild or swap into my lumina.
I would LOVE an L67 Z34, and its been done a million (ok not that many) but alot of times before... so the path is set i just have to follow it

I haven't done a compression test myself, but I'm also fairly sure that I do indeed have a bad valve. Ring wear would not cause the kind of puttering I'm hearing here, plus the dollar bill trick, and if my rings were worn that badly, I would imagine I'd be losing a significant amount of oil, which I'm not.

If it turns out I do have ring or piston damage, it will give me a reason to swap in the much stronger S1 L67 rods and pistons with new rings, and I'll have a second pair of heads for porting.

3800 powered car was a Monte z34, and Kenny drives it now.

This LQ1 HAULS ASS, Is it supposed to haul more ass or something?

And I have two spare lq1 heads, I figure I could replace the exhaust valves and be good to go

I wonder if that's the problem with my girlfriends piece of shit. It's more than a "light puttering", like a "heavy puttering" haha. That probably wouldn't cause it's random stalling problem though

Yeah same here. It seems almost like a misfire at times.

I also have a high idle problem

Compression test would confirm the valve. I said it on w-body and i will here too. Just be aware this could also be caused by a misfire, valves out of adjustment, or bad compression. Its not a sure fire test that it IS a burnt valve. I would check things like plugs, wires, and coils and have a compression test done before you are sure its a valve. Compression test could confirm a burnt valve.

wont bad rings take out compression too?

When a valve burns, it often wears out the valve guide as well, and possibly the seat too. Replacing a valve without fixing the reason why it burned in the first place and replacing other wear items around the valve will guarantee you another burned valve. Why not just replace the heads with good ones and be done with it?

Of course, in my situation, I'm sure its a burned valve simply because my injectors and plugs are new, and valves don't just fall out of alignment that badly in 200k miles. Bad compression could be caused by a lot of things, one of which is a burned valve. Has anyone here seen bad rings on an LQ1 or 3800 by 200k miles? I haven't. Granted a leak-down test would confirm if you do have bad rings, but I'm doubting that's your problem. You'd be burning a lot of oil if it was, and I know for a fact I'm not burning any oil. The same amount of oil comes out of my engine after 3000 miles as I put in there every oil change.

Don't get me wrong Buck, my 3800 hauls ass too, but you can definitely tell something's not quite right, and the fact that its only going to get worse if it is a burned valve is why I would advise finding out what the problem is.

Correct. Since any w-body motor rarely burns out rings compression would confirm a burnt valve.

Well. you can have bad compression rings but still have good oil control rings. So no low compression from rings wouldnt mean oil consumption. And a compression test would tell you what cylinder is bad, then a leakdown would be able to pinpoint intake or exhaust. Valves burn for a number of reason. I was aware its more of an OLD pre 80's car thing. But if you detonate, forien material chips/nicks valve, somthing to slightly damage the valve sealing to the seat, the valve quickly overheats because it dissapates the heat through the seat and if a part isnt touching the seat, it overheats and burns and just goes from there. you would definatly feel more than just putter, it would quickly burn away the valve till there was 0 compression and you would have a dead miss.

How long do you figure oil seal rings would last once compression rings start to go? I think they're meant to work together, and oil seal rings aren't intended to hold compression. If they don't hold compression, I don't see how they'll hold the oil for too long once compression rings are bad. The compression rings are also there to keep pressure from going against the oil seal rings. The moment you start moving away from TDC, that suction will pull up oil pretty easily.

In any case, I'll do a compression and leak-down test on my motor just to be 100% sure, but I've got a pretty good feeling the valve is burned. If the valve wasn't burned, your exahust pipe wouldn't be sucking up a dollar bill, because you wouldn't have any leaks on the exhaust valves when the piston moves away from TDC and creates suction. IMO a dollar bill test is a 100% sure way to tell that you have exhaust valve problems. How else do you figure you can create suction in the exhaust pipe that wouldn't be related to an exhaust valve?

LQ1 included?

Like I said a misfire can cause this as well.

Please explain to me how a misfire with perfectly sealing intake and exhaust valves will cause negative pressure in the exhaust pipe.

What he said.






I will say though that my LQ1 DOES burn oil..... But I thought they all did lol

Theres a difference between burning oil and leaking it. And Im very sure  no GM v6 burns oil unless thier hammered hard with no oil changes. These are the leakiest engines, even if you dont see drips

I agree with this statement. I know for a fact my regal leaks and I can see the spots in the garage which is now covered by a few layers of cardboard.

i got one that burns oil.... but that's only because it likes to suck it up through the PCV...

Sooo replace the PCV valve? Does it actually blow blue smoke. Even a tiny drop will puff. If your just seeing oily residue and maybe a tiny pudle in the throttle body thats totally normal, iv yet to see a car that isnt like that

that is exactly what happens, but i'm not sure if it's going at a faster rate or what, but it sucks up about an extra quart every oil change (3-5K miles). no puffs of smoke, though the cat would mask that a bit anyway.

I get blue smoke on most start-ups, especially warm ones. It may be PCV issues though IDK

Every 60*v6 engine I've owned has done this. Not so much blue smoke, but the smell of oil burning through the exhaust.

Its a first for me, and there is definitely smoke.

I neglected to change my PCV valve until 208k miles. Oops...

slightly more involved than a 3100 IIRC... swapping one for me takes no more than 10 seconds.

Actually it was extremely quick. I just didn't do it because I never thought to get it done. It was literally twisting the cap off the upper plenum, pulling out he spring and the valve, and putting in the new one. I can't say I noticed too much of a difference after changing it though. How often are you supposed to change it?

alldata says every 15K miles it should be checked, if not replaced...

If your smokin at startup that valve stem seals. The oil leaks down the guides down the valves and burns it off at startup. if they get bad enough, youll notice it at stop lights or extended idle, the high vacuum actually draws oil down the worn seal. My TGP w/ 83k nor my 6000's 3.1 with 240k use oil between changes. I did headgaskets and it still looked like brand new, resealed it all. Been great.

Good to know!!! Thanks

So I cleaned up the heads with a wire brush and they look great.

I later discovered that the rocker bolts on these heads are 3/8", and on mine they're 5/16", which is a big problem because I have roller rockers on there and the fulcrums are hardened steel and can't be drilled. So for another $160, I took them to a machine shop and had them drill out the original threads, tap them, and screw in 1/2" to 5/16" inserts. I needed them to be very precise, so its not something I could have done without a drill press.

I also tore apart most of my engine and got the front head off. Still need to get to the rear one after I disconnect the downpipe, but most everything is off the engine. The head I took off really doesn't look too bad. All of the valves seem to be in decent shape, so we'll see if the burned valve is on the rear head.

After a while I got sick of unbolting shit so i started porting my new heads, and made some massive improvements with the exhaust ports. I'm 100% sure this will make a huge difference. You can see the size of the actual exhaust manifold in black around the port, just to give you an idea of how tiny these ports really are.

This was all done with grinding stones on my dremel and my cordless drill. I wish I had my air die grinder back.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/2010-03-31181218.jpg)


(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/2010-03-31181246.jpg)


(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/2010-03-31181239.jpg)


(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/2010-03-31181234.jpg)

I kept the ports d-shaped as they were from the factory because A. there isn't much you can do with the floor of the ports as far as flow goes, and B. they were made that way to prevent reversion.

I still have to do some light sanding to smooth out the ports a bit, but that's where I am so far.

think it'll push you into the 9 second mark? :)

6's in the 0-60 and 15's in the 1/4 mile.

Got some more porting work done today.

There are some pretty big casting imperfections that I smoothed out. Keep a close eye on the before and after shots of the floor of the intake ports, and the edges of the exhaust ports near the valve seat. Also look at the casting around the valve guide.

Ridges on the exhaust port:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4182.jpg)

Ridge on the floor of the intake port:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4183.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4186.jpg)

Casting around valve guide:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4191.jpg)

Other rough casting imperfections:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4192.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4194.jpg)

After shots:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4198.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4199.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4200.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4203.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4204.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4205.jpg)

looks shinier

as we all know, shinier = faster.

the only exception to this is low-gloss/no-gloss stickerz.

so, matte stickers will make my car faster? :)

\

Paint the whole car chrome, that'll add +1000hp

1000lbs maybe, if you use actual chrome! haha

Got some more progress done today.

Before:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4220.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4221.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4222.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4223.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4224.jpg)

After (I lapped the valves after this):
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4226.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4212.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4214.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4217.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4219.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4227.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4228.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4229.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4230.jpg)

Heads are now torqued down, and I got the first set of rockers on. Then I realized it was 11:00 so I called it a night. I'll finish the car tomorrow.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4231.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4232.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4234.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4235.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4239.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/SirMaverick00/95%20Buick%20Regal/IMG_4238.jpg)

engine looks nice n clean

On a side note, I did the dollar trick on my Lumina and it didn't suck it back in, so I just have a slight misfire when the engine is cold. Probably a coil pack getting ready to bite the dust.

I finished the car last night. First thing was a lot of smoke from the engine bay from all the oil and coolant and whatever else was on the manifolds burning up. After that it was fine. Idle vibration is rough, but that might be because I messed around with the upper intkake insert and modified the runner lengths. It accelerates a lot smoother than before though, and there's definitely an increase in power from 3500-5000 rpm from before.

Also, I have a consistent and repetitive shuffling sound coming from the engine, which is louder on cold starts. Not too sure what that might be, but perhaps it will go away after I run a bottle of seafoam through the engine and change the oil afterward. There's also the exact same light clanking sound as I heard before I replaced the heads. I've been told it could be a stuck lifter, but who knows. I didn't bother to pull the lifters to check them, as I was too preoccupied with trying to get the car running again.

Any thoughts?

I haven't found the source of my clicking when the engine is cold in my car, I've decided with 251k on it; it's allowed to make some funny noises as long as it still runs fine. I thought it might be a misfire due to a failing coil, but when the engine is warming up you can hear valve rattle so I don't know...

Well I figured out what it was. Stuck lifter.

I'll try draining a quart of oil and putting in a quart of trans fluid in tonight to see if that frees up the lifter. I figure after replacing the heads with 85k mile heads, lapping the valves, and with my roller rockers in there, there's not a whole lot else that it could be. This might also explain why my idle vibration is so rough.

What a bitch, after such an involved teardown...

Yeah no kidding. I'll try all the solvents I can think of to free that shit up before I tear the LIM, valve covers, and rockers off to figure this shit out.

old lifters will loose thier prime too and make noise, which ATF wont fix, I like using Lucas Oil additive it helps lifters hold thier prime. I use it every oil change on my 6000 and it quieted to 240k lifters down pretty well. I use 3 1/2 quarts of 5w30 and 1 quart of lucas

I have a few people saying the sound I hear is an exhaust tick from a leaky or rusty flex pipe.

Here's a video for those interested in how the car runs now. The L27 usually has a pretty weak top end, but you'll notice the RPM's surge nicely between 3500 and 5000.

MVI_4262.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzmehXfRbIw&feature=player_embedded#)