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[SofaKingWeToddDid]

Ok, so i have everything lined up to build some Strut Tower Braces... now i plan on just makin a simple flat 3/4" thick peice of steel welded to two (2) steel plates to brace it from side to side, i bought all new steel, and i bought too much. lol so all i wanna know is baisicly what do i attatch to, and do i need to get special nuts? are the studs on top of the strut tower strong enough? someone told me i only need to use the middle on... i think hes on crack... am i? is there someone out there who can please PLEASE give me a run down on this? i can make anything, i just need to know whats proper. (I think my steel plates are too thick (at 1/4") but i plan on sinkin in the mounting nuts, just a little...
also... lots of you are gonna hate me for this, but i plan on putting a hitch on my car. lol I can beef this up too if it will help, but i would rather not. haha is there anywhere on the frame itself i can brace? and what the hell is with the rear suspension on a 91 regal coup?? one 'leaf' from side to side is all it gets? isnt there a sway bar? can there be? how thick should it be?

I WANT THIS SUMBITCH BE ABLE TO OUT TURN MAH PRELOOD!!!
hahaha

[3100MPFI]

Here is some pics of a STOCK Cutlass Supreme CONVERTIBLE strut tower brace.




And this is the buick strut bar that I had installed in my 1996 Grand Prix.



If you need better pics of any of them, just let me know, and I will get them for you.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

that actually helps alot. how thick is the metal where it the bolt holes are drilled? how much weight is this thing gonna be supporting? is 3/4" steel an over kill? its solid too, not tubed or anything... and its about 2" wide... so with like 3' or so of it, its gonna weigh LOTS hahaha maybe now that i look at this i see i should size it down a little.

[3100MPFI]

solid is not always best.  Solid can BEND.  Hollow would probably be better if you are thinking about getting up in the higher pressure areas.  Think about the high lift cranes.  How many have you seen that were SOLID instead of laticced?  all the small bars brace against each other to support it stronger than a solid one would.  I think a better design would be one like the CAMARO's use where it is more like a CAGE than a BAR.

Something like THIS:



I will get some good pics of the buick bar when I get over to moms again (if the weather is good, that will be tomorrow).  

You had said something in your first post about someone telling you to use the middle nut.  If s/he is talking about the strut mount, then you CANT do that.  To do that would require the top plate to not be used at all, and that would allow the strut to come out and hit the hood.

He is probably thinking about the imports and stuff where to do the front struts you have to jack the car up and pull out the entire assembly.  To do the front CARTRIDGES in our cars takes less than an hour to do both front ones, and you don't have to jack the car up at all.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

2" x 3/4" x 3' of SOLID steel is gonna hold more than 1" X 1" i deal with trailer hitches, and we sell ball mounts, they are the piece that the trailer ball bolts onto, and the ones with the heaviest weight handling are the solid ones. the tube style as far as i know, only go up to 7.5k, where as the heavier, solid ones... same size. can handle almost twice as much tongue weight at 14... i know at long distances its gonna be better to go hollow, but i know this is gonna be easier to bend if i cant go straight from left to right. (and i need a rise of some sort) hollow will help with having less overall mass. how much strength does it really need is a better question i guess.

How much does the average frame twist? and will a thicker, or stronger (in any way) bar help?

i am going to do both front and rear.... and i know for the rear i can get away with a 2X4 if i really want... but the front... thats what concerns me the most.... anyone know what kinda weight handling these things need? and is it just a Squishing force? or does it go front to back a little too?

does someone have a diagram of how a car twists in a corner?

[3100MPFI]

To be honest, and most people do NOT want to hear this, but if the overall suspension is done right in these cars, they do not need the strut tower bar.  The only reason the CUTLASS SUPREME CONVERTIBLE got it was because with the top cut off, they needed to reinforce the body in every way they can.

Solid is true for short, but the longer the bar is, the more flex a solid bar will have.  Not sure how to calculate length and such, but once you get to a certain length, with a certain thickness, a solid bar will allow for flex, but a hollow bar will not.

In my 1988 Cutlass Supreme, I can not tell when I do and do not have the bar on there.  The car drives the same either way.  The only thing I CAN TELL is when I hit a POTHOLE, If I have the bar IN, then it feels like the car stays more level instead of dipping in.  As far as turning and cornering go, I can't tell with or without it.

Now in my 1996 Grand Prix, I COULD tell a difference, but the 1996 Grand Prix had the SOFT RIDE suspension, and my 1988 Cutlass Supreme has the SPORT RIDE suspension.

[Jay]

To be honest, and most people do NOT want to hear this, but if the overall suspension is done right in these cars, they do not need the strut tower bar.  The only reason the CUTLASS SUPREME CONVERTIBLE got it was because with the top cut off, they needed to reinforce the body in every way they can.

I concur...I really didn't feel a difference in my Lumina...

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

4' of this steel feels like a good 15lbs... it doesnt flex when i stand on it, mind you im not herculese, im a mere 170lbs. but still... is a forklift fork hollow? theres no way this could be stronger if it was hollow... can you stand on your strut tower bar, when one end is about 1' off the ground and it doesnt move?  LOL i really think i over killed it. trust me... cranes, frames, buildings.... all of them use a skeleton structure... and its for weight, and engeneered strength... but when i know i can put 1500lbs on the end of the forks on my forklift at work, that solid steel can handle a shit kickin... and we have an idiot at work that cant seem to operate this thing too well and keeps mashin the forks into the edges of these metal storage bins (made of stacked shipping trailer dealies... like the ones on cargo ships that get dropped onto trailers) and they dont barely get scratched or anything, well the metal i bought is about half as thick as the forks, and is the same length when i cut it in half... lol this shit is nuts...

[3100MPFI]

That is fine for the shorter lengths, but pick up one of the forks for your forklift and see if you want that in your car.

The main thing you need to try to do it make it as strong as you can, but as LIGHT as you can as well.  Otherwise, it will not sell.  Most of the people that are looking for these things need them so they are functional, but they also race and autocross so they need them LIGHT as well.  

170 lbs?  I am almost 300 lbs, and I can jump on the hollow buick one without it bending or flexing.

Keep in mind that your 170 lbs, and my 280 lbs is NOTHING compared to the forces that these almost 2 ton cars can generate going through a curve at 80 MPH.  Just because it does not bend with your 170 lbs does not mean it will hold up in a turn.  The forces generated in these cars MIGHT snap it like a toothpick.

Keep in mind the SUBFRAME is also HOLLOW instaed of solid.  That way they get lighter weight than a solid one, but extremly rigid as well.

If you can make a solid one that is just as strong as the other ones, but does not add a lot of weight as well, then you will really be onto something.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

aluminum.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

by the look of this i dont really need it to be too strong. maybe i should use an aluminum broom handle


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/339622/2
Its an 01 GS.... i wouldnt call it a light car... and all his bar is bolted to is the ONE bolt and it looks like its made out of an old bicycle frame or something... either way, what i have could womp this. but i want it lighter.

[Euro]

Those GM bars are a lot lighter than the cutty ones, but they work great.

[3100MPFI]

They are also a lot STRONGER.  My cutty bar has a slight flex to it, but that buick one does NOT.  I can bend an aluminum broom handle, but I can't bend the buick one.

[SofaKingWeToddDid]

when i make mine, am i gonna have to use the three studs from the strut on either side to mount it? or just one? two? the stud in the middle? i was gonna use all the three outside ones, and leave a hole in the middle, then weld a cross member of some sorts onto the top of it, from side to side.... i think im going with steel tubing, as i cant find anyone willing to weld aluminum for me.

[3100MPFI]

do not mount it to the center nut.  That is the STRUT MOUNT.  You will want to leave that alone.

I would make a bracket to go to the 2 inner ones, or all 3 of them.  

I need to take a pic of how the buick bar is mounted.  I might get that tomorrow.